New way to explain Brazilian racism to Black Americans

[Macunaima]

I just thought of this and wonder what you all think of it. Is this a useful comparison?

Race and racism in Brazil is like race and racism in the African American community. Color prejudice is VERY much alive and, in spite of heartfelt protests to the contrary, white concepts of physical beauty dominate the thinking of the majority. In other words, the lighter you are, the prettier, more intelligent, etc. you're considered to be.

However, unlike in the U.S., there is no "colorline cutoff" between "black" and "white". In other words, "white" people are incorporated into this color prejudice scale, which is unified across society.

[Micaal]

lots of black americans do tend(through our history here) defer between being light ,brown,dark even though its alot better these days !!
Mac it also can back fire lots of women loveeeeeee chocolate men my friends that are very dark get muuuuuccchhhh love from all women.
My skin color/tone is the exact same as the girl in the red bikini latin-euro banner ad above us

the only thing i disagree with you is being lighter we may assume one is more intelligent...or is this perception coming from someone who is looking from outside? then i wouldn't know that ....lol i gota take your word on that one...

I'm glad this is brought up mac i have a question or should i start a new topic
How do black brazilians feel about Black americans? do they just bunch all americans up(races,cultures,ethnicities) just all gringos the same or do they consider us to be different type of gringos?more like them(afro or mulatto/brazilians)

[Ms-trustme]

Thank you for the clarification

[Macunaima]

My point isn't that someone really is less or more intelligent because of their color, Micaal: it's that a racist society sees them that way.

[Micaal]

ahh i see!!
my dyslectic moment assumed you were saying thats how African Americans view it...not western society

[ludim]

My point isn't that someone really is less or more intelligent because of their color, Micaal: it's that a racist society sees them that way.

That what is typical about society today in general, probably the racist ones of that society still more or less think that way.

[Micaal]

take a look at this article!!

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/vi ... 33244782c6

WASHINGTON -- Affirmative action programs are being blamed for “reverse discrimination.” Police homicides of black males are spiraling upward. Poverty remains concentrated in black urban areas and the prisons hold overwhelming numbers of blacks. Faced with such social realities, blacks have begun to call for a new Civil Rights Movement. By the way, all this is taking place in Brazil.

While some forget that the United States does not have a monopoly over the title “America,” the term, with some exceptions, encompasses most of the Western Hemisphere. As such, many of the communities of African descent that reside within this range possess equal claim to the name “African Americans.”

Last month, Howard University students and members of the Washington, D.C., community packed a room at the school’s Ralph J. Bunche International Affairs Center to hear a panel of Afro-Brazilians voice their unique “African American” experience in their South American home country.

The panel was made up of four Brazilian students studying in the United States through the U.S. State Department-funded “Race, Development and Social Inequality” consortium exchange program. They presented research papers on the past and present struggles of blacks in Brazil.

The event commemorated “Black Consciousness Day,” an annual holiday that is celebrated in Brazil on November 20. The public holiday pays tribute to an African ancestor, Zumbi dos Palmares, revered by blacks in the country for his fierce resistance to slavery in the 17th century. The day was consciously chosen to symbolize the ongoing struggles of blacks to achieve social and economic equality in Brazil.

This came as news to many of the audience members who had long been fed the myth that Brazil was a non-racial society. Rosana Chagas, one of the presenters, said that such misinformation was her motivation for coming. “The racial situation in Brazil is difficult for black people. We lack jobs, adequate housing, and the poverty rates are tremendous.” She emphatically stressed during her presentation that there are two Brazils: one black, one white.

Brazil has the largest population of people of African descent outside of the African continent. It is speculated that 40 percent of Africans taken from the continent during the trans-Atlantic slave trade was deposited in Brazil. The country has the second largest African population outside of Nigeria.

This depiction however, contrasts sharply with the Brazilian Census Bureau who puts the black population in Brazil at six percent and the “brown” population – mixed and aboriginal – at 40 percent.

Chagas warned that these figures are misleading since race does not figure into many of the indexes used to chart these statistics. For instance, while one-third of the population lives under the poverty line, blacks account for 70 percent of the poor. The nation’s census avoids this by looking at poverty strictly through an economic lens of rich and poor, removing race from consideration.

This perspective persisted unchallenged up to the 1960s. Tulio Augosto Cutodio, from the Universidade de Sao Paulo, reminded the audience that Brazil was viewed as either a “white” or a multiracial country prior to the 1960s. The “white” view held that Brazilian culture was at its core “white” and blacks would eventually assimilate into the purportedly superior way of life. The multiracial view, championed by Brazilian sociologist Gilberto Freye, asserted that the country essentially shared the same culture and, therefore, race was irrelevant.

It was in the 1960s that black radical thinkers such as Abdias de Nascimento and Guerreiro Ramos forcefully challenged these ingrained notions, asserting that blackness must be accepted as a social fact. They boldly linked the ravages of slavery in Brazil to contemporary struggles, obliging the state to acknowledge the continued effects of the institution on race relations.

Through collective efforts from the Afro-Brazilian community, the government has been forced to take notice. In 2003, the president of Brazil, Lula da Silva, created a Secretariat for Racial Equality to track and eradicate injustices and inequalities. Though the position marked a significant turning point in Brazil’s social history, the struggle is far from over.

Arivaldo de Souza, from the Universidade Federal da Bahia, explained that while the Constitution ensures equality for all of its citizens, blacks’ fundamental rights are violated regularly, especially by the police force.

Custodio clarified for a somewhat confused audience the best technique for identifying Afro-Brazilians. “The census leaves it to each individual to identify his or her own race; however, if you want to know who is black in Brazil, just ask the police!”

Souza went on to explain that the touted affirmative action program has done more for European immigrant groups and women then it has for its intended group, Afro-Brazilians, an irony that was not lost on African Americans who have witnessed similar occurrences in the United States.

The respective histories of African Americans and Afro-Brazilians are strikingly similar, beginning with places of origin. Many of the Africans who arrived in both countries during the trans-Atlantic slave trade came from the Central African region (today’s Democratic Republic of the Congo and Angola).

Scholars have long suspected that kinship ties between the two African-descended communities are incredibly strong. The language difference between the English-speaking U.S. and Portuguese-speaking Brazil has been a solid barrier to further exploring such connections. As events similar to the discussion allow for greater cross-cultural interaction, people of color in both countries may become more aware of each other.

Afro-Brazilian Thiago dos Santos Molina came away satisfied with the event. “I was happy because we can present our ideas on the racial issues in Brazil and interest people. We are excited to share our black experience with our brothers and sisters in the United States.”

oh and Happy Dia nacional da consciencia Negra everyone!!

[frank4000]

but mac is isnt brasil a more classist society than racist to corn a new word.

people are also discriminated against based on the financial and educational background and as result of most people of this background in brasil tend to be black we by and large call it racism???

[Macunaima]

but mac is isnt brasil a more classist society than racist to corn a new word.

people are also discriminated against based on the financial and educational background and as result of most people of this background in brasil tend to be black we by and large call it racism???

Sure, Frank. But how do you cleanly detach the one from the other in a country which, up to 120 years ago, was the biggest slave society Earth has ever seen?

[frank4000]

well you got me there, mac but i have a question how many interacial marriages between white and black.

[Comandante]

well you got me there, mac but i have a question how many interacial marriages between white and black.

They are quite common in the lower classes in the northeast states, but extremely rare in middle and upper classes and in southern states in general.

[Macunaima]

well you got me there, mac but i have a question how many interacial marriages between white and black.

More common than in the States, according to the IBGE, even in the South.

[Comandante]

well you got me there, mac but i have a question how many interacial marriages between white and black.

More common than in the States, according to the IBGE, even in the South.

According to IBGE, black are only 6% of the population. They are full of bull.

[Macunaima]

Commie, when the IBGE says "interracial marriage", they count "pardo" as a seperate race.

[frank4000]

similiar to mulatoo or moreno which means about 50 to 60 percent of brasilians fall into this category based on the last census

[mathematic]

Great thread - thanks mac

[Jaboo]

pardo is mulatto
morena is just a term that blacks use to describe skin color and whites use to describe hair color.

[jordanz]

Hey Mac and everyone else, it's been years since I've posted. I saw this clip on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBNUOsrI ... re=related

I dont want to be presumptuous but from an African American viewpoint this (above) is an example of very "pre-civil rights/Jim Crowish" racism. Ultimately it's good to know that Black Brazilians are'n't standing for it.

[jordanz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgR41dO9 ... re=related

I wish we could have such frank discussions in the U.S. ....


This one has a bit of that patronizing tone that you speak about Macu but still somewhat interesting albeit a little outdated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZctDfys ... re=related

[e harmony]

Jordan,

I would argue many Black-Americans are if not worse off than during Jim Crow era, than at least on relative par with those times today vis a vis percentages employed and quality of life.

Whether a Black-American was a medical doctor or a lawyer in the 1940's in Alabama or Wisconsin they likely lived in the same neighborhoods with poor Black-Americans. Black-American neighborhoods - especially in the North - could be very socio-economically diverse.

In the 1940's the unemployment for prime working age men in Milwaukee, Wisconsin was roughly 50%. Today it's roughly 50%. during the 1960's and 70's it was around 15% or so off the top of my head.

Black-Americans largely have tokens spread throughout the upper professional levels. The Civil Rights Movement never secured economic power for Black-Americans. In fact the post-Civil Rights curses have been so great some older Black-Americans reflectively question with a bit of dejection whether the price paid to sit next to Whites and munch on a sandwich, or piss in the same urinal, was too great.

That's not a put down on the Civil Rights Movement of the U.S. because it was an heroic epic and a long and diligently fought battle that in certain respects has improved the life of Black-Americans and enriched the lives of non-Black-Americans in the U.S.

However, tokens and tv images really don't mean shit to the feet on the ground. There are Black impoverished areas of Milwaukee. Latino ones. Show me where the White impoverished areas exist in Milwaukee? You can't because they don't exist. You have travel into rural and smaller town Wisconsin to find the clearly defined poor White areas.

Shit could be tough for Black folks in Milwaukee materially - though not like it was for poor Blacks or Whites in the South materially - during the 1940's and 1950's. Yet, the way some of the poor Blacks in Milwaukee and Detroit live today I would suspect is ten fold worse (on average) then what the average poor Black folks in the 40's and 50's had to endure. (material wise and violence wise)


I've already read through this small pictorial book (Milwaukee never boasted a major Black population like Philly, Chicago, Detroit and so on until between roughly the 1980's to 90's - and more towards the 90's because those under Generation X are now predominately Black, Latino, Asian etc) but the images seem to suggest a far more thriving (materially) Black Northern community in Milwaukee then that of today.

http://www.bronzeville-milwaukee.com/book_corner.html






Compare that to contemporary Detroit. And note the two Black college professors aren't dressed in marvelous, glamorous clothing like tv, Hollywood, or Black filmmakers prefer to image on the picture screen. Their clothing is sober and reflective of struggle and a "hard city" both industrial and climate wise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz_vDOrqOOQ